Now where was I…

It’s been months since I’ve been able to look at my genealogy, but I have a couple of days now with some free time and I’m looking forward to digging back into my research! But when I pulled out my binder of research, I find that I’m at a loss as to where to begin.

While I will push through this time to figure out what I was working on last (and waste a lot of time going over things that I’ve already tried to figure out), I’m thinking that it would be helpful to have a “hint” as to what I was thinking the last time I did research. If I had a short form to fill out at the end of a research session, I could write to my future self provide that “hint”. But I know that if it is too complicated, I won’t take the time to do it. So what would I like to know right now before I start re-reading through my binder?

• What theory am I currently trying to prove/disprove?
• What piece of information am I trying to find?
• What was the last resource I looked at?
• If I had more time, what resource would I look at next?
• If I only have a small chunk of time, it would be helpful to… (find the address for _____, organize the list of _____, look at the library web site and make a list of books about ______, etc.)

I have an electronic research log that I use for each person, so maybe these 5 questions could be added near the top of the log or as a cover sheet for the log.

For most researchers, I’m sure this is a “duh!” idea, but I tend to go over the top trying to make everything PERFECT, so this time, I need to focus on quick and efficient!

Genealogy Do-Over week 2 update

It looks like I’m going to have a fairly rare week-end free from appointments and long “to do” lists, so I hereby declare this a Genealogy Week-End! (Except for some football – GO COLTS!)

I was able to begin this afternoon and here is what I have accomplished:

• I have set up a new folder in Dropbox for all “Do-Over” documents.
• I have decided on the naming convention for all of my documents.
• I have set up file folders within Dropbox. Here, I must confess that I had to go ahead and name the folders with all of the male names that I have in my current tree.  I had to do this because of the way my documents will be filed. As a document is scanned, it is placed into a folder and then when the document is entered into my Evidentia software, I can link to the file in that software. I can change the names of the folders later if I find that I have an incorrect set of parents, but I decided I’d better set them up now to keep everything consistent.
• I have updated my blank group sheet file to include “Genealogy Do-Over” in the footer so that I don’t get confused with former group sheets.
• I created a group sheet for myself and my husband. (Funny, I never took the time to do that before!)
• I scanned birth certificates for myself, my husband and each of our children. All of these files have been saved in Dropbox.
• I am in the process of entering those documents into Evidentia (and using them to learn how the program works!) I am transcribing each document as I go.
• As the information is entered into Evidentia, a citation is created (which I’m not certain is completely correct at this point) and a link to the digital Dropbox file is added so that the document can be found easily.
• Using the citation created, I am adding endnotes to each fact that I have in my group sheet.
• I am in the process of creating a short biography, but I need to find the list of places that we have lived that my mother gave me several years ago. I believe it also contains a list of all the jobs that my father has had, so I think that will help me with my biography because my memory is soooooooooooooooo bad!

This week-end, I plan to begin a brand new tree in Ancestry and expand my group sheet collection and document scanning back 1 generation to my parents and my in-laws. I have decided that I will not upload digital documents to Ancestry for any living family members as I’m just not willing to take a chance with those. I will start my Research Log for each family and use it to begin researching.

Week 3 is supposed to be a research week, so I’m hoping to get a good jump on that this week-end just with my immediate family. The goals are to find/use a research log that you are committed to and then to begin researching to prove the “facts” that you have for your family so far.

I’m happy that I don’t feel totally overwhelmed at this point and that I was able to get caught up! This may be the only time I can say that, so I just wanted to get it out there for the world to see!

 

Genealogy Do-Over…Musings

Several days ago, I decided to begin a “Genealogy Do-Over” and as part of that, I joined the group on Facebook started by Thomas MacEntee. Part of week one’s assignment was to “set previous research aside”. In order to really have a “Do-Over”, I intend to start from scratch – completely from scratch. But it seems to me that as I read the messages from the Facebook group, there are far more messages about re-naming files and organizing files than there are about starting from scratch.

This totally surprises me! I certainly understand the desire to be organized – especially as we begin a new year. We all have that desire to organize everything in our lives at the beginning of a year! But I see far more reward, and far less “overwhelmingness” (if there is such a word) in really going through with setting my previous research behind!

So my plan is this: I will continue to gather all of my digital records into cloud storage folders. At this point, it will just be a “dump it all in there” and since I will being trying to follow Thomas MacEntee’s advice to “resist the tempatation to automatically consult these items, I’m not going to bother with re-naming them at this time.

I will begin a new tree on Ancestry – which is honestly the only genealogy “software” I’ve used in years. I don’t do anything with reports and I can always download a GEDCOM from Ancestry if I decide that I want to use some software to create a report. Instead, I will attach all of my files to my tee on Ancestry and I will use Evidentia to create the citations, which I will copy into the notes section for each file on Ancestry as well as putting them into the footnotes of the notes I write for each ancestor. After that, I will put digital documents into folders on my laptop using a consistent naming pattern. These files will be backed up in the cloud storage files I have created and duplicate files (“previous research”) will be deleted.

For the “Prepare to Research” step and the “Establish Base Practices and Guidelines” step, I’ve started a checklist of things to do with each file that I collect. I will try to stay very diligent about completing each step of my checklist before collecting additional files.

Week 2 will officially be complete this Friday and I believe I have a couple of days yet this week with a lighter work-load so I’m going to try to complete those tasks by the end of the week-end.  The first task is to conduct a self-interview. For this, I will add myself to my “Do-Over Tree” on Ancestry and I will scan and add my own birth and marriage documents and I will attempt to begin a mini-biography.

The 2nd task is to conduct family interviews. I am going to concentrate on information and files for my parents for now. All of my grandparents have passed away and my aunts and uncles have never been interested in sharing family stories, so for this, I will have to rely on stories I have already collected. My parents’ information will also be added to my “Do-Over” tree.

The final task is to set research goals based on the information collected from these “interviews”. I will be using my Excel Research Logs for this step. I will create Family Group Sheets for myself, my parents and my grandparents and I will begin to create a list of questions to research based on those.

I don’t believe I’ll be able to keep up this pace after this week, so I’m going to try to take advantage of my time now. It is a good feeling to have specific steps that I’m trying to accomplish rather than just saying “I’m going to do some genealogy” with a vague idea of an ancestor I’d like to find!

My Genealogy “Do-Over”

Thomas MacEntee issued a challenge a few weeks ago to work through the steps of a “Genealogy Do-Over” with him. This is a 13 week (or 13 milestones) project in which he is going to begin his family tree research totally from scratch in order to create a tree without the mistakes that we all make as beginning genealogists.  I’m a week behind in beginning this challenge and I’m quite certain that with my work load, I won’t be able to complete a challenge each week, so I’m going to consider this a 13 milestones project.  He has blogged about the challenge http://www.geneabloggers.com/tag/genealogy-do-over/ and formed a Facebook group which I have joined. There have already been lots of ideas and forms posted that group members have uploaded to Facebook in order to help everyone with the journey.

I love the idea of beginning totally from scratch, but I’ve never had the guts to do it. This may be the kick in the pants that I need!

So the assignments for Milestone 1 are:

• Setting Previous Research Aside. The idea for this step is to be willing to “put it all away” and not to refer to it as you begin to research. He says that the only exception would be documents that took significant time or money to collect. Those items are only to be considered as absolutely necessary, but when you DO look at those records, you are only to look at the data itself – no post-it notes or handwritten notes in the margins. All digital files are to be moved to 1 central location which he is calling a HOLD area – just get them all into 1 location.  That is what I have been working on for quite some time now and will be my focus for this goal.
• Preparing to Research. Thomas is using this step as an opportunity to think about how he has done research in the past including late nights or short spurts which means he isn’t thinking as clearly or isn’t completing a thorough job on a research topic. He is encouraging us to think through how we have researched in the past and what we might change. We might think of some “warm up” exercises that we might use in the future or making a list of items that we want to have on hand each time we do research.
• Establishing Base Practices and Guidelines. In this step, we are to make a list of self-imposed procedures that we will commit to following as the research portion of the challenge begins. For me, this will mean coming up with the best way for me to keep track of my research (I’ve GOT to use the log I’ve created!) and citing my sources. One of my Christmas gifts from my son was a copy of the Evidentia software. I will be watching the videos to learn more about how to use it and I will use that to help me create my sources. I also plan to learn more about using Evernote to keep track of things I find online.

So that’s my plan for this week. I’ll try to post my updates as I complete each goal! I would love to have a genealogy buddy who would be willing to work as a team to keep each other accountable and to bounce ideas off of every once in awhile. Anybody interested?

Inch by inch

My John M. Smith (@1775 – 1835) appeared in the records I have found at a most inconvenient time. Russell County was formed in 1826. John bought his first tract of land which was half in Russell County and half in Wayne County in April of 1827. John’s sons were not old enough to appear in tax records at this time and he left no will when he died in 1835. I am certain of 6 children based on land records when they each buy or sell the land that was their part of John’s estate. But how can you move backward in time when the first land owned by a man comes that close to the formation of a new county? Especially with a name like John Smith! I know of no brothers or parents to follow and his children were too young to be listed in any records at this time.

Recently, I found tax records for Wayne County from which John’s part of Russell County was formed. I am pretty confident that my John was in Wayne County in 1826 and 1827 because the tax records for those years are organized by military company and John was listed in between 2 families who would eventually become in-laws. Henry Hardin Payne married John’s daughter, Sarah, in Russell County in 1828. Henry’s father was Philemon Payne. Thomas Simpson married John’s other daughter, Mary Jane, in Russell County in 1838. Thomas’ father was Reuben Simpson Jr and Abington was Thomas’ brother.

1826 Wayne Co Taxes

1827 Wayne Co Taxes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, most of the county tax records are arranged “alphabetically” – based on the first letter of the last name. Luckily, Smith and Simpson both start with S! John M. owned no land at this time, but his future in-laws did – and it was on Beaver Creek where John would eventually settle.

Still guessing, but at least it’s a little more of an educated guess. Inching my way backward, I have found:

• John Smiths listed in 1825, but none of them are close to a Simpson.
• In 1824, the page is dark with lots of ink bleed through but I can see a John between Abington Simpson and an Edward Smith. It does not look to me like the John is a Smith, but it is so garbled, I can’t be sure.
• I can not find a likely candidate in 1823.
• In 1822, John is listed on the page 3 lines above a possible Reuben (hard to read the handwriting) with Abington on the next page.
• A John Smith (with no land, of course) is nestled nicely around Abington and Reuben Simpson in 1821 and 1820.
• No John Smith that looks like a match before 1820.

So could there be a potential 1820 census for John Smith in Wayne County? Yes, but only if I’m able to keep an open mind…

John should be about 45-50 years old in 1820. He should have around 4-5 boys and 2 girls at this time. I know that there are probably additional children who died before John died. At least 2 sons died before 1840 – but they received land when John died, so I know a little bit about them – but not the years they were born. I do not know when John’s wife died, but I have never seen a deed or a census record in which she was alive.

I can once again use the future in-laws as a finding aid. These images are the bottom of one page and the top of the next.

Looking for my “normal suspects”, starting on the first page above, I see Abington and Reubin Simpson Sr and on the next page, I see 2 John Smiths followed by Reubin Simpson Jr. The top John Smith does not have enough children and the bottom John has too many girls.  (The 3 is the beginning of the females.) I don’t see a woman who is old enough to be John’s wife, so I’m wondering if perhaps his wife has passed away and some family members are living with him to help raise the children? Or if some of the youngest girls passed away before the next census.

So these are certainly possibilities, but what will my next step be? I’ve looked for all court records with a John Smith in Wayne County and I find none. Records for the others I’ve been following are only records for roadwork. I can’t think of any other records that can help me know for SURE that I have the correct John.

I think I’ll try looking for land records for the Paynes and the Simpsons. Perhaps John was a witness for a deed. Other future in-laws in the county at this time are Peter Ellis and Andrew Meadows, so I’ll look for their land records as well. I’m also going to try to research a couple of Smith names that I’ve seen near John in the tax records – Christian, James and Edward/Edmund. Perhaps these men are brothers that can give me some clues. These are not names that I recognize from my research in other potential counties, but they did own land in Wayne County, so I will try to find deeds for these men to see what I can discover. I could also try to go through the tax records again to create a list of names who live on Beaver Creek. Perhaps those are deeds to look for as well.

I do feel like this path is much more likely than any other path I’ve tried for John, so for now, I’ll rejoice in the records that I’ve found and try to think “outside of the box” for my next step.  Any ideas you’d like to share would be appreciated!

Why didn’t I think of that??

Today was the last day of school (insert happy dance here!) and not only was it the last day of the school year, but it was my last day as an Algebra teacher! Tomorrow is my last day (clean out day!) and then I’m “retiring”. Well, I’m actually going to be working at home with my husband in a business we started about a year ago. But it means a major shift to the routine of my days – some days will be filled beyond belief and other days will be pretty open. THOSE days will be genealogy days, of course!

Tonight, I was in a genealogy mood, but just too physically tired to get out files or go to the library, so I decided to take a “stroll” through my own blog.  I searched for all of the posts I’ve written about a particular ancestor and I was amazed at how much I had written – and how much I had FORGOTTEN that I had written! Lots of ideas for things to research – research plans, books to look for and connections to consider.

So my “tip of the day” is to re-read what you’ve written on your own blog! See what your thought processes were in the past and see what you still need to follow up on!

FAN list – a 3 way connection?

Andrew Meadows:

There end up being 3 surnames tangled in this mess, so I’m going to try a bit of color with each surname to try to tie things together.

John M. Smith’s 2^nd son (that I know of) was Elias Smith – born about 1810. Elias married Elizabeth Meadows in 1834 in Russell County, Kentucky and Andrew Meadows was Elizabeth’s father.

Andrew was born 17 Jun 1791. I can find him in the 1820 census for Wayne County, Kentucky and Andrew’s father, James, is also in Wayne County in 1810. Andrew can be found in each census for Russell County from 1830 – 1870. According to his tombstone, Andrew died in 1873 and is buried in the Jamestown Cemetery in Russell County.

In Feb, 1833, John M. was made the administrator of the estate of John B. Smith.  I have never been able to found a record for “John B Smith” so I have not been able to make a connection to, but I suspect that he may have been one of John M‘s sons. Andrew Meadows is the security of the Administrator Bond. Interestingly, Hiram Rowe is listed on the Executor’s bond the same day, but Hiram’s name is crossed out and Andrew’s name written in on the Administrator’s bond.

On the “potential line” that I’m trying to connect to, there is a Mercer Co, Kentucky Guardian Bond dated Feb, 1833 for a deceased John Smith. I can only see an abstract for the bond (http://kymercer.heliohost.org/bonds.shtml), but it says that there was an orphan, Fanny – a bondsman, John Garr – and a guardian, John League. I have to wonder if the deceased could be John B. Smith? The timeline works – John M. Smith b. abt. 1776, m. abt 1800 could have had a son, John B. Smith who could have been of marrying age before 1833 and had a child. Is it too much of a coincidence that 2 men named John Smith both died in Feb, 1833 and that records for each appear in the exact 2 counties that I’m trying to connnect? The name “John Smith” is so common, maybe I’m trying too hard to make this work? The Garr surname does appear in a Meadows connection, described below. I’ve done just enough research on John League to know that he moved his family to Indiana, so I don’t expect to see his name again, but I will keep it in the back of my mind.

Andrew Meadows was listed as security along with John Cook for George A. and Elias Smith to be the administrators of their father’s (John M. Smith) estate in 1835.

I began filling in children of Andrew Meadows and doing a quick search on each child and found his youngest son, Andrew C. Meadows, married Mary Margaret Gaar in 1852. The 1900 census for the family included mother-in-law, Fitny. I continued to research and found that Fetnah Jane Smith had married Louis Proctor Garr in 1831. They were the parents of Mary Margaret Garr.

Will this link back to the 1833 Smith/Garr guardian bond?

I decided to create a chart to show how these families relate to each other and as I do research I will continue to look for these surnames in each time frame that I examine. I don’t have the break through yet, but here is the chart.  I tried to arrange the names to show who might have the potential to appear at the same time in the right records to help me narrow down what to look for.  Vertical lines show a parent/child relationships. I did not skip generations.

The only names I am taking on faith from someone’s un-sourced online tree would be William Smith and Mary Baber. While Fetnah’s mother in this chart would have been 41 years old when giving birth, William would have been almost 60. I see potential for a missing generation there, but I know that this scenerio is not impossible.

So where do I go from here? I’m not sure. I have a nice pension application file for James Meadows, so I will be checking those names and locations to see if I can find a Smith match. And the Garr/Gaar surnames is more unique than Smith or Meadows, so I’ll certainly be watching for that!

I would love to find out more about the John Smith who died in 1833.  I think I’ll be taking a look at the tax and land records of that time to see if that reveals anything. I’m also going to examine more Wayne County records to see if I can extend the Meadows and Smith association. I’m off to the library right now!

Eight Years is a lifetime?

Eight years.  That’s the entire timeline that I have documented for my 4th-great-grandfather, John M. Smith. And he has been my longest running brick wall in all of my genealogy research. I have 11 pages of notes for John, but the only information that I can prove spans an 8 year period from the time right after Russell County was formed until his death in 1835.  That means a significant portion of his life is still to be discovered!

His first proven appearance comes in a land purchase of 100 acres along the Cumberland River in April of 1827 followed by a listing in the tax records for that same year. Where did John come from before this?  Because it is such a common name and because I have no information on siblings, I have not been able to prove a family connection to take me back another generation.

So I’m turning to names in the “other” category.  Names which may or may not be related but which I hope can yield some clue that will help me break down this brick wall. So who do I have and what do I know about them? I’m planning to list each person one at a time in order to do some “quick” research on each man as I write to help keep me from getting distracted!

James Gilbert: On Dec 31, 1827 a land grant was given to John M. Smith and James Gilbert. The land straddles the Russell County/Wayne County boundary line. I’m unsure why a grant would be given to 2 individuals.  Does this mean it’s likely that they are related? Could James or his wife be related to John’s wife?

The following day, on Jan 1, 1828, another grant was given. In this grant, it says, “granted by the said Commonwealth unto John M Smith & James Gilbert assignee of said Smith who was assignee of Timothy Burgess assignee of Braxton Carter who was assignee of Elijah Hutchison”. So in this grant, John M. had the grant and he sold (I assume) a portion of the grant to James Gilbert but that the original grant was for Elijah Hutchinson who sold to Braxton Carter who sold to Timothy Burgess who sold to John M. Smith.  Timothy Burgess’s line is mentioned as a border of this land.

Doing a very quick search on Ancestry, I found an un-sourced family tree which says that James was born around 1788 and that he married Sally Decker around 1817 in Wayne Co, Kentucky.  The tree indicated that James was born in Wayne County, but it wasn’t formed until 1800, so that assumption is incorrect. In fact, Kentucky wasn’t even a state until 1792.  John Smith was born around 1775 and was married around 1800 based on the age of the oldest child that I am aware of.  Perhaps I should research James’ father – possibly Elijah Gilbert (the only Gilbert I see of the correct age in 1810 Wayne Co census. There is a John Smith in the correct age range on the same census page as Elijah. I will follow up on this.)

I can find James Gilbert listed in the 1820 Wayne County census living next to an Abner Decker. On the Kentucky GenWeb site for Wayne County, there is a transcription that only says “Gilbert, James m. Sally Decker 1817”. The only other Gilbert listed is Richard Gilbert who married Elizabeth Melbourne on 16 Apr 1822. There are several Decker marriages, but James and Sally are one of the earliest listed.  Wayne County was formed in 1800, but the transcribed marriage records begin with 1811.

I find James Gilbert, age 16-25, listed in the 1820 Wayne County census with a wife and a daughter under age 10. (Assuming relationships here.) By 1830, he can be found in Russell County, but both census lists are alphabetical and I cannot tell if he is living near John M. or not.

In 1826, the county boundaries changed and the north western sliver of Wayne County became the south eastern edge of Russell Co, so it’s likely that there was no moving involved between the 1820 census and the 1830 census. In the map below, the white boarder in the center of the map is the area that would become Russell County. This map is off slightly as I know that John’s land was just south of the Cumberland River and that the lower loop of the River was actually in Wayne County.  This is the area where the land grant land was located.

 

Image created at http://historical-county.newberry.org/website/Kentucky/viewer.htm

In 1835, James Gilbert and his wife, Elizabeth G. Gilbert (a second wife?) of Spencer County, Kentucky sell their share of the 1827/8 land grant as well as another parcel of land to John M. Smith. John M. died in the fall of 1835.

I can find a James Gilbert in the 1840 Spencer County census, but he is 10 years younger than expected.  In 1850, the census shows that his wife’s name is Elizabeth. By 1860, there is no wife listed, but in 1870, Elizabeth is once again shown.  Perhaps this is another marriage. James is found a final time in the Mortality Schedules indicating that he died in 1879 at the age of 80.  He was listed as a widow. At this time, I have found no probate records for James after doing a quick look at FamilySearch.

As I think through possibilities for gaining information from James Gilbert, I’ve decided to:

1) Search for a marriage record for James Gilbert and Sally Decker to see if there are clues from a bondsman or witness.
2) Search for land transactions for James Gilbert to see if there are any clues to relationships.
3) Continue searching for a will from James Gilbert.
4) Search the tax records for Wayne County to see when Elijah Gilbert died or possibly left the county.
5) I will try to analyze the tax records for Elijah AND the John Smith that I found to see if they arrived in the area around the same time. I’ll need to keep in mind:

• Wayne County would have been Pulaski County for 1 year just before its formation (1799)
• Green County from 1793 – 1799.
• Kentucky became a state in 1792 and at that time, this area was part of Lincoln County.

6) Continue researching Elijah Gilbert to see if I can find a will that might mention a child or grand-children to connect the Gilberts to John M. Smith.

Next time: Andrew Meadows.

Spider Webs of Connections

I was able to spend a few hours at the library today, but for the first time ever, I could not get onto a microfilm scanner because they were all full!  Normally, I’m one of the first at the library on Saturday, but a dead car battery conspired against me – or so I thought…

Because I couldn’t scan the microfilm pages I wanted, I turned to the stacks to look at a few books.  I had looked at these books when I first started to research Smiths in a new location, but nothing stood out to me then.  Now when I look at these books, I see names and connections that I understand – or at least recognize.

Because I wasn’t planning to spend time in the books, I didn’t have my Flip Pal with me, so I took about 25 pictures with my phone. Most of what I got was from a book of Court Order transcriptions. I was looking for anything “promising” with the Smith surname. Some images weren’t in great focus and most were crooked in one way or another, so I decided to type up what I had collected.

As I was typing things up, I saw listings for wills that had been recorded in the County Court with an unexpected Smith as an Executor or Heir. Or guardianship granted to a Smith for a “non-Smith” child. I’m starting to see connections for which John Smith is which based on neighbors surveying roads together. Wouldn’t neighbors be likely to be witnesses for marriages or wills? In some court orders, additional hints appeared with the names – like “John Smith the lesser”. (I’m hoping that is the same thing as Jr!)

So I decided to see if I could find the wills in the Probate Records on Family Search that matched the court orders I have found. What a great thing this has turned out to be! I see all kinds of family connections for daughters that I didn’t have before. But there is a lot of criss-crossing that has me longing for an empty bulletin board from school that I can pin pages to and start making a “spider web” with yarn to really understand it all. Yarn to show that this group sheet connects with this land record which connects to this marriage bond, etc.

I wonder if my husband would notice a giant bulletin board in the hallway…

In needs of some fans!

For my entire life….well, it seems like all my life, but probably just several years…. I’ve been trying to find the father of John M. Smith who died in Russell County, Kentucky in 1835.  I’ve got hints on top of hints, but the name John Smith is so darn common!  One of the hints that I have has lead me to jump back over a generation and now I’m trying to get them to meet in the middle.

Recently, I received a new hint, but to make the connection – or at least convince me not to stop trying to make the connection – I’ve got to follow the fans (friends, acquaintances, neighbors) and every thing I look at makes me say, “Where have I heard THAT name before”?

No matter how often I’ve heard the advice to keep track of these people, I never have taken the advice and now I’m regretting it.

So where to begin? Of course, it will involve using Excel. This morning, I was able to make a worksheet of the marriage records for the cluster of families and I’m including witnesses, bondsmen and pastors, if known. Next, I’m going to work on land records, but the stack is quite tall, involves at least 3 counties, and I feel like I’m about to jump into a very deep pool without any floatation device.  It seems too random and unorganized. There will be WAY more land records than marriage records. I certainly don’t want to have to do this again, so I want to be thorough. But knowing me as well as I do, I will have to FORCE myself not to get side-tracked, because that’s my M.O.  Read a document, think of 5 questions, research one of those, which leads me to more documents…..till suddenly I have no idea what I was working on originally.

Somehow, I will have to come up with a way to show WHICH John Smith or which family group a record belongs to…

Feeling frustrated and overwhelmed. Advice is welcome!